June 17, 2021

Faithspotting "In The Heights"


Anthony Ramos   Warner Brothers/HBO Kenny and Mike discuss the film and faith elements spotted in the Jon M. Chu directed film of the Tony Award winning musical In The Heights that is both contemporary in voice and a throwback to an earlier...

Anthony Ramos   Warner Brothers/HBO

Kenny and Mike discuss the film and faith elements spotted in the Jon M. Chu directed film of the Tony Award winning musical In The Heights that is both contemporary in voice and a throwback to an earlier style of film musical.

Faith Reflections Spotted:

The power and place of "calling" and knowing how to distinguish calling from desire and dream.

The balance between community and the individual. While it is the community that helps nurture, raise and make individuals who they are, it is the individuals who form and make up the community and bring variety, personality, life and health.

Similarly, the place and nuanced distinction of individual countries within the greater Latin culture, mirrors that of the variety of religous experiences and expressions within one's greater Faith.

The call to be the community of the present, looking toward the future calling rather than wasting the present mourning the past. 


Kenny: I'm Kenny, Dickson

Mike: and I'm Mike Hatch,

Kenny: welcome to Faithspotting.


Audio Clip: Yeah, yeah. I'm a street like choking on the heat. The world spins around while I'm frozen to my seat. The people that I know, I'll keep on rolling down the street day is different. So I'm switching up the beach because my parents came with, they got a little more assured with Paul, but at least we got the store and it's all about the legacy they left with me. It's destiny. And one day I'll be on the beach with Sunday writing checks to me are we came to work and to live and we got a lot in common. I can uh huh. Let's be off. We are in Washington Heights. There's a clip from in the Heights. You can watch that on HBO max if you have that subscription or as Kenny, I'm sure is going to talk about here in a minute. Please go see it in the theater. I'm mike Hatch,


Kenny: I am Kenny, Dickson. This

Mike: This is faith spotting. So Kenny, go ahead and let's start with the whole, you really need to see it in the theater thing.


Kenny: This is something that just screams to be seen in the theater, not because of special effects, but for the visuals, for the music. It is a glorious film detailing semi autobiographical story of Lin-Manuel Miranda and his neighborhood Washington heights and upper Manhattan and just all the intricacies and the people. It's a big film and it just screams to be seen in the theater.


Mike: I gotta agree with you and I ended up watching it at home and I'll tell you the story in just a second. But luckily I was in the media room, four K Dolby Vision Dolby Atmos. So I had about as good as I could get at home. But even when I was watching it, I was going, man, I really need to be watching this in the theater. So it really does scream for theater watching, that's


Kenny: for sure. It's sort of fun. We've done this a couple of times. So this is as far away as you can get from our last two episodes. This is not a quiet place at all, both in terms of subject and feel. And just there's not much quiet, much silence in it. Very true. It was a fun experience and I throw back not only proceeded in the theater if you're able to do that and that whole experience again, but just a throwback to the musicals of Busby Berkeley in the thirties and the forties and experiencing sort of a history of film and the storytelling that we don't get all that


Mike: much. It reminded me a lot of several scenes and it's probably obvious even without seeing it of West side story, you know, a lot of color, a lot of just beauty and just atmosphere in the music itself. It brought me back to that, but it's just a totally different thing. Well, it's


Kenny: yeah, I thought about that same actually in the Cinemark, one of the previews was for Spielberg's West side. So cool coming out. Yeah, it's almost like half of West side story, you know, you take away the conflict, the sharks or the Jets, whichever. And it sort of shows that the struggles of the Puerto Rican community uh in that side. So it shows some of the dynamics of the Latin community and immigrants, 1st and 2nd generations. Yeah, it definitely has that buzz.


Mike: So what ended up happening on my end? So this shows how dedicated I am to this podcast coming. Okay, because you know, I always say and I do believe that family comes first Melissa, my wife is having this whole week of mission work towards the end of the month. And I swear there's a point to this during this whole week, they're going to be going doing things locally in the community, a bunch of mission stuff and she decided, okay at the end of the week, we're going to celebrate by having dinner and then we're gonna go see in the Heights in our own private theater at Cinemark. And I said, oh, that's great. That sounds like a lot of fun. I definitely will go with you. And then this came up and I was like, we've really got to get on this Kenny because people are really talking about this movie because it's incredible. I'm gonna go ahead, I'll watch it at home and then watch it at the end of the month with the youth group. So that's why I watched at home like I did. It was everything that I could say last night to the family when I sat down for dinner because I watched it yesterday morning to say, oh my gosh, you guys really need to see this before the end of the month. And they said no, we can't. We're going to go watch it with the youth group in the theater. I said okay. Yeah, I respect that. But at the same time I'm just like, you guys really need to see this because it is so good. I know like you mentioned, this is made for the theater. It really is even just watching it in the grandeur of my media room, which really isn't horribly grand compared to a lot of other ones. It's still incredible. There's a rhythm to it. It's so good. It's really, really good, I will tell you. And it's funny because I didn't notice until afterwards. It's about two hours and 20 minutes. It's a long,


Kenny: it's a long film and there were some parts that could have been tightened up a little bit, you know, that seemed to and where we're sitting, very comfortable Cinemark that just had just remodeled that theater

Mike: pandemic


Kenny: and has those, those seats that, I mean when you go all the way down, you're almost flat. I mean, and look anyway, uh even with comfortable, really comfortable seats, you know, there's wiggle around a little bit. But it's ironic because I was reading an article about it and they said they really struggled because they cut a couple of songs and they cut a couple of characters and so I'm sure, you know, the film was longer and a couple of the sequences were you no longer than maybe when it was on Broadway and um but yeah it's a long film and for the most part it doesn't feel that way but they're just a noticed I noticed a couple of times it could have maybe tighten things up a bit but it is it just pays off really and it's I think it's everything that it lives up and I think surpasses the buzz that was coming out.


Mike: Yeah and I got to say and I don't know if I'm gonna be struck by lightning here but I actually liked it more than Hamilton. Don't get me wrong, Hamilton is amazing and it's in its own right and history of it and the work that went into it. But at the same time this one I just I really right out of the gate I just I was into it and I enjoyed it.


Kenny: Yeah, I think so. I I've had that same thought, I don't know, you know, you're going to compare it to obviously and my thought coming out was there weren't as many really catchy tunes that came out of this compared to, you know, when I came out of Hamilton, I was whistling, you know? Of course, yeah. You know, you'll be back, did you catch, you'll be back. So when I came out of that, you know, I had two or three songs that were rotating in my head and this one, I didn't know if I saw it again. It might because it tends to take me well that's true music, but in terms of story, obviously in terms of the breadth and just the size of the show and really some of the relatability of it, it certainly could easily surpass it.


Mike: And part of the reason why I think that it's stuck out For me a little bit more, at least, cinema wise, is the fact that when you were watching Hamilton on Disney Plus you were watching this, the stage play. So that's kind of limited. It's limited but unlimited. I mean, especially the way that they did it, but this one is just the grandeur of it, of just this area of New York and just that in itself was so it's just so much more eye candy to the dance sequences that I thought were just incredible. It's like, I don't think this has ever been done before. Is the dance in the pool the 96,000 and then the dance on the side of the building. That reminds me a lot of, like you mentioned some of the old musicals.


Kenny: Yeah, well that was the Busby Berkeley for that pool scene. They had 600 plus.

Mike: I don't doubt it.


Kenny: They were talking about how they were you know, they say oh yeah we can do that. And then when they started doing it's like oh we got to watch out for the sun. I think they were battling some weather and it rained a little bit and then so we gotta make sure nobody gets sunburned, we gotta make sure none of the little kids drowned. We gotta you know all of this and it just it is beyond superb of that sequence and that's the one that's the obvious Busby Berkeley one


Mike: and another another relation to I don't know if you noticed this as well but of course you had the kind of throwbacks to Hamilton because you had the character who played George Washington. He was mr soft mister Softee So he was mister Softee recognize. Yes and there is if you are into waiting through all of the credits there is a post credit scene that deals with mister Softee and with lin Manuel so that's going to be worth your time.


Kenny: Well we had we were sort of late uh we left during the credits, we didn't see the end. And Anthony ramos was he was uh had to two roles in Hamilton. And


Mike: did you see the although it really wasn't meant to be throwback to joker the stairs and I


Kenny: was gonna ask with those these stairs

Mike: those are the stairs. Ok. Yeah. She's walking down like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.


Kenny: I thought that's got to be those

Mike: on and he was on the side doing his graffiti and everything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I figured that that was very cool too. So it was

Kenny: that in that neighborhood or is that

Mike: I I think she

Kenny: must have been


Mike: that's definitely in the Bronx. Yeah we got lost in the Bronx. We're going for Brooklyn and we found the joker stairs. That was definitely in the Bronx. Yeah


Kenny: just the entire cast is just amazing. Obviously Lin-Manuel Miranda. He doesn't have the party had on Broadway, the lead role which is Anthony Ramos a familiar with much with him. I'm not no we just sort of discovered him. We've been watching uh Michelle and I on HBO max, the new season of in treatment in treatment and it's we had watched it. Uh there's this they had three seasons 10 years ago, it's about a psychologist and they have one show every day of the week so they have five episodes of each different patients. They launched another one and he's one of the patients. Yeah and and the one it's a woman who's, who's a therapist and her name escapes me. But she was in Orange is the New Black. She was crazy eyes. It's a phenomenal, just the acting in that and his role itself. He has just this range between seeing this and his singing and just his almost comedian, his comedic acting in this, this very gut wrenching or you know, just heavy, heavy performance in treatment. Uh, he's stunning. That's cool. And I


Mike: heard, I mean I heard of the show, but I didn't realize that he yeah,


Kenny: and Michelle, he's her new crush. I think he looks different. His freckles and Hispanic and this, this smile that is so engaging.


Mike Well, the girl that played Vanessa is my new crash


Kenny: uh, melissa Ferreira. So this I think they said it took 10 years to make and going back and forth. Like a lot of projects that got sold ended up at Warner Brothers, but it was passed around a couple of times, spent a little time in the Weinstein company before all that happened there. And you know, and one of the things that they were that really sort of delayed it was Miranda and I guess the other, the producers, they wanted to use genuine people from that area that looks like they're from and especially the Weinstein people, they wanted pop stars, you know, they wanted the usual suspects for that and they sort of held out and they got sold and they finally got what they wanted. A lot of the people are very well known uh in certain communities in that, but uh they're not big budget a list stars yet. In fact, one of the things uh supposedly that Miranda said when he was said this show needs some stars in Man Manuel. Manuel said back, well, I thought we were making stars in


Mike: this and they did and they did, this is I think really the only other than, you know who you just spoke about, jimmy smith is probably, I think one of the only recognizable stars in it other than who you said.


Kenny: Well, did you Benny, did you recognize Benny Nina's boyfriend? Okay. The driver. You know the Oh yeah, of course, yeah,


Mike: yeah, that's right. He was actually, he was on the Walking Dead for a while, which was interesting.


Kenny: It and straight out of Compton and that's right. He was Stokely Carmichael and Blackkklansman.

Mike: That's exactly right.

Kenny: And okay. All right.

Mike: So maybe to their, well,


Kenny: he was one of those I've seen him before and and all of that. You see somebody in that context and he has a good voice and good presence and you know, so it's hard to, yeah, I've seen him but it wasn't in whatever these, but that's


Mike: right. He was Dr Dre and straight out of Compton, that's a good point.


Kenny: But it has, I mean there's one person or one character, one performer, maybe it was a little weaker, but she was in the original uh and so they used her and I mean just the singing was weaker. Just worth


Mike: your time. Very much worth your time. Let's put it this way. 2.5 hours to me is very precious. And I do not mind going to see this again in the theater at the end of the month with my family. Yeah. Really? And it looks like we've got another soundtrack that will be listening to in our hatch cars. You know, it was Hamilton for a while, but now it's going to go on to that. I'm sure as soon as uh melissa and the kids see it which is fine, I don't mind.


Kenny: So it was interesting some of the other production, they started on a lot of it on location in Washington Heights. And it's expensive to shoot in New York, Very expensive to shoot in New York. And it's you know when you're on location like that, it's just bring so much more the areas that you can't control. But they needed to do that for the authenticity. And so they thought they shot it in I think the summer of 19. So they were talking about when they had the street scenes and when they did all that, the people like they showed in the film, it's hot. So they all hang out outside on stoops and in the streets. So that summer there hanging out was watching a film being shot by one of their own lin Manuel about themselves. And so they said there, it brought some pressure and they had to be spot on and what it looked like, what they sounded like. And all of that, there was one, one time, there was a scene shot at night and the community was singing the yield cut take and someone living somewhere yelled out the window. I hope that's the last take. Yeah. So, uh, it really has, uh, that feeling, of course, the swimming pool scene. So it's, there's a lot of energy and it's just an uplifting film regardless of of your, your heritage. Um, especially if, if you're, if you're of Latin descent


Mike: faith in this, there's gotta be some good nuggets in here.


Kenny: Well, yeah, usually when we, when we talk about a film, we've had a couple of days or a week or something. And so I just saw this last


Mike: night. So you're probably still processing.


Kenny: Yeah, it is. And I'll be, oh, I should have said that. You know, there's a lot of faith elements and I figured there would be just reading about it. We talked about doing it beforehand. We knew it was gonna be popular. But the first thing that sort of things out and it's one of the the threads of the tapestry that runs throughout the entire story in the entire film is the this idea of calling, of calling Usnavi the narrator lead uh Anthony Ramos. He's he has a dream, he thinks is a calling to go back to the Dominican republic where he was from and where his father on the bar, beachside bar. And so that's his calling to to leave the Heights. And then one of the other characters, Nina grows up and she's the darling of the neighborhood, the smartest girl, the one that was gonna make him proud. She goes out to Stanford. And so the film opens as she's coming back after the first year and she wants to come back, you know, she wants to come home but to the Heights. And and then it gets into the stories of of some of how either they or their parents they're calling was to leave home and to come. And so it brings this up and, you know, talks about we do have a call and it's important for us to follow that calling, but also it's important for us to examine that calling is what we're wanting a calling or is it what we think we want to do or is is a genuine calling. So there is that that aspect and also as a part of that there's this the road taken and the road I want to take. But then there's also they do give an homage to the roads and choices that aren't taken, especially for the ones that that came over. And so there's several characters, one, what would my life have been like if I had stayed in Cuba provides stayed in the Dominican republic of fried state And you know, so it really it really blends into the choices that we all have to make. And again, with an emphasis on finding out what are what are calling is. And it, you know, it may be something different than we've always thought. So that's why it's important to look at that. But a lot of folks there had callings. Then there's the place of story in creating and maintaining identity. The film is sort of told in story form. And uh Usnavi is telling some Children this story of his growing up and they're sitting on a beach scene and he's telling them about the heights and you know, these kids are five or six and, and so and he goes back and forth between that. So it really eats at. One of them has a story and their story uh is their identity but also shapes their identity and they bring it together and they combine their stories and another story comes up in terms of a communal story. And so it really it shows that the place of story we've talked about that quite a bit, but it really has a an important part here. And as people of faith, again, we've mentioned before, we are a people of story, uh, the Judeo-Christian tradition especially, you know, well I want to say especially the Judeo part, but you know, when you've been to a seder feast and you know, it starts off that celebration of Passover by a child is assigned the role of asking the adult why is this not different than before? And it allows them to tell the story of the Passover. And, and, and we have stories to tell. And, and this is sort of, and I thought about it. This had a callback to Hamilton in the song who's going to tell our story when, when they're talking, uh, Eliza and Hamilton have lost their son and you know, who's gonna tell our story, so who's going to tell their story? Well, we tell it and then hopefully we pass on that story that they tell through others. So it really has an important place uh, in the film, in our lives, and certainly in our lives of faith, then we talk about community. If you listen to a lot of these, you know, continually talking about community, and obviously community, we knew that was gonna be a big part of course, you know, so you have this little enclave as there is in New York and in other cities, you know, little Italy, uh Washington Heights and all these little enclaves of people and and nationalities and traditions, and so they talk about that, and but here you also see, you know, that they talk about all the things that community does. Community nurtures community forms. Community uh, holds accountable, but then it does show also that there is tension between community and individuals and even we have that in our faith, you know, we are part of the community, as Christians were part of the body of Christ were part of the church, but yet we're also individuals and within that body and there is a tension between that and intention is in some ways a good thing. Uh, and it, you know, it's the way I've described it, it's it's tension that that keeps, you know, in physics that keeps the earth and the moon rotating around the sun, you know, the the tension between gravity and velocity, you know, so there's a place for tension, there's tension in the piano, uh, that, you know, if it's if it's if there's the right tension, then a piano string or a guitar string is into, so attention is good and there's good tension between communities. So communities form the individual, but the community is made up of the individuals and so you want to have that balance so that, you know, people aren't lost, they don't lose themselves in the hole, but then they don't forget the whole by focusing on the individual and it really is a balance and it's that's in comparison, say, and I was comparing it to my life growing up utterly different growing up in a suburb of Dallas Texas and very homogeneous. You know, there weren't there wasn't much diversity in my growing up. I mean very, yeah, I'm I was the same seeing something like this, you miss out on on that diversity. And there is this push it seems like and they bring it up in the film and they talk about gentrification and they talk about other things of that diversity and that uniqueness in that community is sort of being is being tested. You know, it's a challenge. So there it shows more than most films, the whole idea of community uh both with the community itself as well as the role of the individuals within it, I think does that in a very effective way. Uh and one of the things also is, you know, as a part of that community, the individuals with their own uniqueness and that it is, there's a, there's a flavor to that and there's this one cooking scene or their one this one and I told my wife like that gunman, I'm


Mike: hungry. You look at that. I was thinking it's like barbacoa


Kenny: and all this other stuff. And, and but it's that it's that individualism coming into the community that that brings life and spice figuratively and literally to a community. So I think that it comes out in that then there's so one of the things they talked about it early or they show it in that there's a, there's a blackout during one of the New York is somewhat famous for Blackout that comes And it lasts for days and it's the hardest part of the summer. It's 100°,, there's no air conditioning and and it's not even helping to get outside now and one of the characters is leaving the neighborhood and she, she comes out and she wants sort of a send off and everybody just sort of dumped themselves like limp rags, you know, and she says, you know what's up with this, you know, she didn't say that, but sort of reminded me of blue does face in animal house when they interact with, you know, and uh she gathers them around and you know, we're Latin’s and we need, you know, it's not hot, we were not without, you know, we're used to not having power and gets up and has this ends up in this tremendous sequence, dance and music.


Audio Clip: We are not powerless. We are powerful. If Claudia was here, she'd say back in Puerto Rico, blackouts happen all the time and we still through a fiesta, this is like Gilligan's ghetto island. What would Jesus do? Do I look like Jesus to you?


Kenny: And in that they go and they talk about the various nationalities within that community. There's the Dominicans are showing their flag, the Cubans, the Mexicans. Yeah the Puerto Ricans and so yeah, they're all Latin but they all maintain their nationality in that and each one has a different nuance on things that speaks to you know, versus Christians. We are we're all Christians and we all maybe have different denominations, different traditions. Uh you have say some roman Catholics that are that are more high church Episcopalians and more high church. And then you go to the non-denominational, that that is not high church at all and is more energetic and uh led by the spirit. And we we used to celebrate that difference. And now we've we we're allowing ourselves within our our own faith to not embrace, you know, not saying if you're Episcopalian, you have to embrace Pentecostalism and holiness, you know, movement, but certainly take some stuff from that. And it's and it's and it's when we combine what we all have and that for a while, that's what Methodism was about. It was it took the uh sort of the straightforward um church of England, uh, theological that and they added a mission all component. They added a spiritual uh component, a personal, a personal holiness component. And we have lost that ability to uh to really appreciate and and hold again, intention if you will, or hold separately the nuances of our faith without we're instead judging or critiquing when in reality none of us have it. All right. And and and that's part of God's immense nous that allows us that it takes these different flavors if you will. And I say that in a positive sense these different flavors of living out our faith. My dad's favorite book was varieties of religious experience and V. R. E. As he called it. And you know, there is that variety and it's in that variety of not only what we believe, how we nuance our faith, but then how we live it out and how we worship and how we do all of that. That it's it's that variety that that makes us as Christians uh stronger and more faithful. And we lose that by holding it well, I'm Baptist, you do it this way. It's more than just friendly jokes about Methodists and Baptists and all this. We were sort of fraying on those differences. And in this we see an example of why we shouldn't do that. And and the wonderful complexity of when we come together or when a group comes together and celebrates their, they're the uniqueness of themselves and others.


Mike: And I thought in that scene, especially that reminded me and it brought me back to West side story America. That's what I thought of with that scene. And there wasn't as much kind of slamming your your country as more celebrating all the countries and bringing them together in this Latino community.


Kenny: Absolutely. And and there is uh both they're probably and before there is a challenge to America. Um the Americans that they sang about in West Side story to to live up to what you, you claim you are. And again, you know, they talk on that, they touch on the dreamers. One of the characters is the cousin of Usznavi and Sunny and Gregory Diaz just a wonderful job. It's sort of a pre-teen or young team and he's uh he's a dreamer and he goes to a rally and it dawns on him that he can't go to college and he's he's smart, he's intelligent, he's funny, he's personable, he's working hard and you know, he's he's the ultimate example of what we have always prided this nation of who we and yet he's on the verge of being pushed out. So, so there is that aspect of will. But again, in the midst of the whole, the Latin community having those nuanced countries is important and adds to and doesn't detract from. So the last one was sort of being in the moment. So they see that their community, it's going to be changing. It always changes. And even referred to it that way back when it used to be uh an Irish community and then change, you know? So these things are apart and there is that temptation. Perhaps if you will to to mourn what the community is no longer, it's no longer what it used to be. Uh They've they've seen some shops close and some new ones coming in and they're losing what what made them who they are.


Audio Clip: The neighborhood is gone and will never turn the lights back on as real Powerless. And y'all keep Jason isn't gonna celebrating and it's getting late in this place. That's integrated. We are powerless. Alright, We're powerless. A light of a candle. There's nothing going on there that we can't handle. Maybe you're right. Sunny calling the cornice. Maybe with Powerless. The corner full of foreigners. Maybe this neighborhood's changing forever. Maybe tonight is our last night together. However, how do you want to face it? Do you want to waste it? When the end is so close? You could taste it, you could cry with your head in the sand. I'm a fly this flag that I got in my…


Kenny: we as as Christians have that. And as we look at church membership decline as Methodist and as we look at, um, faith expressions of faith in general declined. So that now thinking the latest piece survey, less than half of the country, you know, said they were really practicing their faith. And you know, how do we do that? Do we? Do we mourn that the church wasn't what it was? I've said every church I've been in, all I hear about are the glory days, you know, think of Springsteen, you know, and every church I've been in. Well, our glory days were 20 years ago, in the fifties or the sixties or the 80 even A large suburban church that, you know, I they were just getting to that point where they were longing for the days 15 years ago, when they were at their peak. And uh so, so how do we do that? Do we gather? Do we worship? Do we mourn that? Do we, do we focus on that? Or do we see where God is going to use us today? It might be smaller, it might be different. But yet again, going back to that calling, we still have a calling, God still has a calling for us. And the more we mourn that our churches aren't what they were, the quicker the church is gonna die and there's not gonna be anything. But whereas if we go in and we examine our calling and examine who were supposed to be, how we're supposed to be ministering. And and this church is doing that. I mean, this church is doing that is answering the call rather than wringing its hands, saying, well, we were what we were X number of years ago. Uh and they're finding ways to be the church and and so that that you get that feeling here, that yes, they realize that yes, they're grieving, but they're going on there, they're holding on to who they are at that moment and they're gonna see who they are at some point later.


Mike: And one thing that I really like that they did as well, and I don't you really, you kind of see this happening is like the store owner, the cleaners, higher prices, but you never heard them slamming him or trying to close him down or to run him out of town. It was very much acceptance that was kind of inspiring because so many times in movies, if somebody comes in and tries to take your neighborhood, you try to drive them out. But they were very accepting. They said, okay, well this is a person that's come in, they're started their business and and they're letting them be, I thought that was that was well, yeah, they


Kenny: are and and in other places, that's not the case, you know, in some of the articles about and of uh Lin-Manuel and some of the others to talk about microaggressions and one community pitted against another and rather than coming together. So yeah, I mean, it's it's they do show that and that's how it that that's a model that we as communities and then we especially as the community of faith should strive for then the other and we talked about a little bit when Weinstein and all the, all the other suits and the studio execs wanted, you know, these pop stars and you can sort of guess who maybe they would have put in as leading and you know, and if you if you look at that, it really, it wouldn't have had the same energy, they would have brought baggage, maybe some literal negative baggage or just well I saw her in this, this and this and oh she looks a little bit older than she did, yada yada ever, he did. You know, it wouldn't have had near that energy and uh to have you know, these quote bankable stars and that really fits into the Jesus teaching about pouring new wine into old wine skins and you just don't do that and that's you just don't. You put new wine in new wine skins and if you try to do it the other way the wine skins break and everything is lost and if they had tried to do that here by just sort of painting by numbers it would it wouldn't be half the film. That is


Mike: what's interesting too. I don't know if you knew this but marc Anthony had a part in the film was Navies.

Kenny: No, his uncle, Yeah, it was Sonny's father.

Mike: So Sonny's father, he was Mark Anthony probably considered one of the most famous Latin American pop artists ever. And he doesn't even sing in the film until you hear it over the credits. So even that in itself you go, wow


Kenny: well and yeah, some people won't recognize him probably.


Mike: Absolutely because he does look Yeah, he he has this part of just this loaf, you know, it's interesting

Kenny: sort of alcoholic


Mike: drug. Very much so. That was interesting that the producers went with that. It's it's pretty, pretty gutsy.


Kenny: Yeah. So that but that whole thing and and again and that that that speaks to to our faith, not just trying to redo the same old stuff too, to live out our faith by numbers, but again, see where God is calling us and how God is calling us to be individual Christians, to be a faith. The church with the big C and the church, churches with faith communities. We belong to what is God calling us to do, have the faith to go do that, bring our traditions with us. But also know what's going to be different and allow God to to bring forth something based in tradition but yet is new in reaching out to others. That's what I think this this movie is about. That's what they did. By the way they did it. By the way they produced it. The way they shot it. It really is a must see,


Mike: yes, definitely see it on the big screen if you can. Mhm.


Kenny: Spotting is a production of Crossroads faith and film some materials, not property of faith Spotting, but utilizing under the

Fair use guideline


Mike: Thank you so much for listening. We'll catch you next week